if the other way doesn't work, try something new: beyond arguing, some possibilities

Most so called conversation
is two people, semi-listening
and mainly
"thinking" what they are going
to say
and waiting for an opening
to sneak, shove, slide or otherwise
to insert
their
very very important words

BAD conversation
aka arguing
aka "fighting" has two generic
forms,
one worse than the other
and both  a sad waste of
human life love
and liberty

the normal awful arguing mode
generic style is:
person A, telling person B
this:
I'm right, and you are wrong

person B, sees it just the opposite
and is defending, attacking, interrupting,
yelling,
whatever it takes for this important message:
I'm right and you are wrong

notice the similarity in their messages

the AWFUL style
is both have this message:
I'm good, you are bad

ouch

Now,
what's some alternatives,
non habitual communication
as it were

one is Non Violent Communication
which isn't my training
and it's roughly:
let the other guy talk
+ really listen
and then say:
okay, what it seems to me
is that your feel ......
because you need/ want/ feel you aren't getting.....

It takes the amazing assumption
the other person has real issues, feelings, and order in their
own world

great

A tried and true other way:

person A listens
person B talks, rants, accuses
whatever for awhile
(way way best to set a timer here,
a little ranting goes a long way if
person B has to really listen, can't interrupt,
and had to repeat it back)

and that's the next step
person B says to A,
here's what I heard you say,
and gives it back
without any interpretation
or defending

( tough stuff,
but good,
"You said I was a creep
and never pay enough attention to you,
and I really let you down when...")

And then, B asks: did I miss anything
(another reason for a 2 minute to 3 minute turn each,
it's hard to remember too much stuff,
especially when it's emotional "stuff')

if A says you missed....
then B says, okay, I missed ....

If A says, no you got it,
then B takes a short turn
A listens without interruptin
and repeats it back

Called reflective listening

this practice,
the non habitual listening
and honoring the other person,
can really help
that wounded feeling of
"You don't care about me,
won't listen to me feeling"

which is often true in arguing
when the yelling is about OUR important
stuff,
and precludes listening

there are two more cool non habitual
communication games
I like

and let's make it short

each requires you to
take turns with a timer
it can be a little,
or a lot longer,
since there is no feedback

in the first type:
when it's your turn
you talk about anything
except any feedback, suggestion, etc
about what the other said

so each of you agrees to only talk
about issues that don't involve the other

in the more complicated type,
you can address whatever came
up
but you have to listen when it's your turn
to listen
and the more you can keep it
in the famous "I" statement
response
the better

this is tricky
and can work in a mature
relationship
especially one committed
to full time being present

....
this wasn't really a poem
was it?

who knows

could we both,
you gentle reader
and me sincere writer,
go back to the beginning
and read the whole darn thing
with an attempt to follow our breathing
and sense two arms
and two legs
and one
spine
at the same
time?

I'll give it a go

you'll do what you do

i had to read it several times,
discovering typos along the way

and rereading
and going slowly
is nice

very nice

at a point
the words
didn't matter,
just being present
felt
plenty good
enough

hope your
present
is presenting you
with ease and joy

and if nothing else
that thrill of being
in your life
at the moment you are living
your life

Za Wake Up thing--- talking about now, and being asleep

In my Sonoma days,

a nun came to town.

Not the Catholic kind, but Tibetan,
some fearless gal from Canada or Ohio
or something who
had
gone to
Nepal and sat in a cave for
????? a long time
under supervision of the Tibetan Buddhist
path

she'd gotten a lot of
strength wisdom freedom
from
this experience
and her talk was inspiring

after
wards
I joined the line of those
saying, Oh wow, thanks for your
talk, blah blah

And then,
going out to my bike
realized
that the blah balh
blah
had all been said in a state
of
sleep

eggads!
again!

oh, well.

sensing feet and arms and aware of light
and sound
i walked the now not asleep Chris
back into the building
and found the nun
and said,
you know last time I talked
to you about how great your
talk was
I wasn't conscious
now I am
and thanks

She woke up to match me
out of the shaking hands
daze
and we glowed
at each other for a brief
eternal now
moment
and
then I went back out
to my bike

it would be nice to say
i've been awake since
that moment,

but alas,
the learning
and slipping
and re re remembering
(which members?)
happens
over and over

luckily
it's a delight
to come home
each and
ever
y
time


ciao
for
NOW

Chris

ps sign up for newsletter if you wish,
place to right for that

what would your mother say, if she were dead and you were grieving?

so hi,

and hey,

someone has to ask the question,
right,
about the grieving thing
which is
"normal"
and if you don't do it "enough"
all sorts of bad stuff is supposed to happen
and besides
everyone will think you're a creep

and God knows, the purpose of life
is to avoid other people's bad opinions

but,
let's ask the dead Mom's
what they would want

and guess what,
this has not been tested or approved by the FDA

so:
hey Mom,
you're dead,
and my question is:

how much should I grieve

and here's the answer I here:

"As much as you want,
but from the dead side
of things,
you really see how amazing
the life side of things
is,
and don't grieve so much
you forget
even for a second
how amazingly lucky
YOU are
to be in the life boat,
the ship of the living,
RIGHT NOW

so stay present while you grieve
and immensely grateful to be alive

and if you want to feel grateful
to me
go ahead,
that's good for you

but why cry about gratitude
I loved loving you

and if you want to keep loving
me,
go ahead,
that's good for you,

but why cry because we can't hug
or talk

just send me love
all the love you want

it's the best you can
do and
loving yourself
for doing the best you can do

is what I want for you

and the yucky sobering part of
grieving
the part where you have these
chilly realizations that you
could have loved me more

hey, forgive yourself,
i could have loved you more,
too,
and it's just the reminder that's important:

love people while they are alive
call them
up
write them,
have their memorial six months BEFORE
they die
not two weeks after

just learn from what you weren't perfect
in
me,
I wasn't perfect either

forgive me
in case some of your grieving is convoluted
anger that I wasn't better

i was perfect
you weren't perfect

that's perfect

send me all the love you
want
and then
quit grieving
and go out and love so living
people better
and better each day

and here's a hint:
you're a living people

so love yourself better each
day
too

good,
love
Mom